A Pair of Ditsons

By Mr. Joe Sustaire of Talihina, OK
Post Reply
User avatar
Joe Sustaire
Moderator
Posts: 2640
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:41 pm
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Talihina, Oklahoma

A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Joe Sustaire » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:00 pm

Hello,

As some of you know I'm making a comparison build of two Ditson guitars. These were first built by Martin in 1916 for the Ditson company and my build is based on drawings supplied by Dean, of the grand concert model. This is a small body guitar, and the shape was the forerunner of the dreadnaught. These were often referred to as baby dreadnaughts.

So mine have sister tops, red bear, and macasser mahogany back and sides from Eddy Yohannes. They will be alike except that one will be x-braced and the other will be ladder-braced. I have and play both types, but there are so many other differences between them, I'm not sure just how the bracing choice affects the sound. Hopefully this will clear up some confusion for me.

I just finished bracing the two tops and here's how they look.

Image

As you can see, they are very different patterns and ought to provide very different sounds.

Image

Image

The x-braced pattern is shifted forward closer to the soundhole, which I've read was how Martin built them in the "golden era". My pattern is also strongly influenced by a thread I read by Hesh, which also included photos of his tops. What I got from it was mainly, thin, parabola shaped braces, with the upper x-brace ends anchored into the kerfing, but the lower x-bracing carved down to zero before they get to the kerfing. Allowing the lower sound board to vibrate more freely. His arguments made sense to me and his tops looked nice and clean, so here we are. Thanks, Hesh.

Image

Image

Now my ladder-braced pattern is strongly influenced by a thread of John Howe showing his bracing pattern that he got from an old Stella. I pretty much followed his lead except I have added the bracing around soundhole. I have ran into several cases of the top buckling around the soundhole in ladder-braced guitars of that era that I have picked up on ebay. To repair them I have had to reinforce the tops in this area, so it makes sense to me to avoid the problem.

The other interesting point I find here is that the cross braces all end before the kerfing. I'm guessing that would contribute to a freely vibrating top with greater sound potential, we'll see.
As should be obvious here, I'm picking up clues and hints where I find them and hoping it doesn't all blow up in my face! :D

These are my 5th and 6th builds. I have been tapping tops and listening, but, one I don't really have enough experience yet to know how what I'm hearing will translate to the finished guitar, and two I have a real hard time translating sound into words and vice versa.

So here we go, happy building all,
Joe
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you any different!"
Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
Dennis Leahy
Dishwasher
Posts: 7082
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:59 am
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: looking for a place to live

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Dennis Leahy » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:07 pm

Woo hoo! Way to go Joe! Thanks for sharing these fraternal twins here with us. Great to see you here, and posting cool content!

Dennis
Dennis Leahy

User avatar
MetcalfGuitars
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:57 pm
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Greeneville, TN
Contact:

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by MetcalfGuitars » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:23 pm

Neat Joe, Keep us posted. Can't wait till you get to play them and inform us of the outcome.


I've always wanted to do a side by side build to dispel theories about M/T neck joints being inferior.....Someday!
Tim

User avatar
Eben
Chairman Emeritus
Posts: 6150
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:58 am
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Lummi Bay, WA
Contact:

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Eben » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Joe - What can we say...

Wait, I know!

THANK YOU!

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

UrbanMonique Food Blog

User avatar
Brian
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:06 pm
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Seattle WA, USA
Contact:

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Brian » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:07 pm

Nice job!

There is that plane again! I want one! I have been looking in pawn shops for something like It that I can hack shorter.

~Brian
"The future is no place to place your better days"

User avatar
Joe Sustaire
Moderator
Posts: 2640
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:41 pm
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Talihina, Oklahoma

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Joe Sustaire » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:36 am

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the comments!
Nice to be here isn't it, where the emphasis is on the sharing of common ground, and support of our extended family!
Hey Brian, check on ebay, I've seen them there cheap.

Thanks,
Joe
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you any different!"
Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
tommybthompson
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by tommybthompson » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:15 am

Joe, you do great work! I was also influenced by the hesh post with pix of his thin parabolic braces. I was going that direction anyway and he pushed me a little harder.

That ladder backed top is interesting, it only has one lower brace plus bridgeplate. I'm sure that must work out after all these years but you'd think it would deform. Mabye if you lock that soundhole in with bracing the rest of it is good? I will be very interested in the differences in sound.

Thanks for posting this...

Tom T.

User avatar
Joe Sustaire
Moderator
Posts: 2640
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:41 pm
Include Off Topic: Yes
Location: Talihina, Oklahoma

Re: A Pair of Ditsons

Post by Joe Sustaire » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:01 pm

Hey Tom T,

Sure nice to meet you and get your comments, thanks for watching.

Interesting that we were both influenced by Hesh's bracing posts. Now with the ladder bracing, yeah, looks kind of skimpy. You ought to see them without any of the soundhole bracing I've added. :D Do they deform? Most all I've seen have had or are in need of neck resets at least. Will this deform? I guess I'll find out, or someone else will years down the line. :D These were praised by the solo blues men that are my hero's, from the 20's and 30's, for their sound and loudness. Maybe this will let me see what they're talking about without a lot of other variables getting me confused!

Thanks again,
Joe
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you any different!"
Kurt Vonnegut

Post Reply