Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

By Mr. Joe Sustaire of Talihina, OK
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Dennis Leahy
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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Dennis Leahy » Mon May 03, 2010 5:29 pm

Ouch! Dammit!

Hi Dean, this is just my take on it, based on wood movement and RH, obviously not from some vast repository of experience...

I'd say, if the wood was acclimated and the RH was in the "happy range" during the process of gluing on the back braces, through the time of gluing the back on, then I'd guess that this may be repairable. You may get away with swelling the crack shut by putting the box in humidity, then wick-in some CA, and let the box come back down to the shop RH. I suspect your shop RH (in Wisconsin) is about like mine (in Minnesota), and that right now, the RH is staying around 40% to 60%. Spring: the time after humidifiers and before dehumidifiers. And, if I'm reading your notes correctly, you buttoned this up in fall. Fall: the time after dehumidifiers and before humidifiers. With a dry spell between. Actually, I'm kind of surprised that the crack is still open, now that there is "normal" humidity. Has the crack closed up some, on its own, between the driest part of winter and now? If the box was closed up in about the same humidity as now, then since the crack hasn't closed up on its own, it makes me wonder if the abrupt force of wood movement in the drying process overcame the forces of the glue on the back bracing (somewhat) causing some creep, and that now the gentle forces of the wood swelling are not quite enough to let the back move as it would if unbraced. In other words, if the glue on the braces is now resisting allowing the back to swell and close the crack. If the box was closed in about the same RH as now, I think I'd take a shot at forcing the crack to close, by humidifying the box, and then glue it shut. It's worth a shot.

Not specific to this Bocote back, just thinking out loud:
When I would think it is a lost cause is when the wood was at a high RH (swollen, wider than 'normal') at the time when bracing the back and attaching the back to the rims, and the back was then trimmed to fit the box. I say 'lost cause' because even if you add moisture and close the cracks and glue, it will fail again under normal to dry RH. Even if someone would carefully take the back off and remove the braces, fix the cracks and re-brace, the back at a normal RH would be slightly too narrow for the box. I suppose if you had not yet cut out for binding, or if you were willing to add purfling, or add tiny wings to the tips of the lower bouts, then you could always salvage it, so maybe 'lost cause' is a bit overboard - but it would be challenging when it got to the correct RH and it was a bit too narrow for the box.

So there, you asked for thoughts, and I'm always thinking too much :? so I gave you a bunch of mine.

Keep us in the loop on this - it will be interesting to see how you handle it and how it goes.

Dennis
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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Dean Kumbalek » Tue May 04, 2010 9:44 am

Thanks for the ideas Dennis. I always kept the relative humidity between 40 - 50 % in my shop and any material I use for a build has been stickered in this environment for awhile, so I feel the material was in the safe range starting out. The winter sun, setting in the western sky hits my shop/apt now and the room warms up. This, along with the dry unhumidified air, plummeted the moisture content of the air.

I took these pictures of the back during the heating season, but am just getting them posted now. The cracks have closed up quite a bit. I will use a crossgrained reinforcement strip on the inside , and fill the outside with caulk or something (just kidding Joe :lol: ). I'll make it look good.

I'll keep you guys updated too- but I just found out my house is sold, so now I have another project of going through my material possessions and deciding between selling, storing, goodwill or other decisions- then moving. I still hope to finish this guitar up and visit Joe this year.

I'll keep you posted-

Dean

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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Joe Sustaire » Tue May 04, 2010 3:24 pm

Man, sounds like you've got a full plate for a while Dean! I don't envy you there.
Fixing a crack will be like a pleasant vacation after dealing with sorting and moving!
Just be sure and use one of those high silicon caulks, that'll handle all that expansion and contraction! :lol:
Hell maybe that's what I should use to close my boxes, it'd have enough give to it the plates maybe wouldn't crack! :clap:

Hang in there,
Joe
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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Joe Sustaire » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:57 pm

Well Dean has gotten settled and is back in the shop, hurrah!
He sent me some pics of his build and permission to post them, so here we go.

Image
This is getting an oil/varnish finish on it and it's looking good!

Image
Love that top! My photobucket account just wouldn't cooperate with rotating this image.

Image
Hey Dean, what happened to the cracks? I can't even see the bondo. :lol:

Image
No wimpy bandsawing for Dean!

Image
Coming together....

Image
,,,,and looking mighty fine!

Getting close Dean, have you strung it up yet?

Joe
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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Dean Kumbalek » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:05 pm

Hey Joe,

Thanks for posting the pics, I was having trouble with my site.

I glued cleats along the back cracks, rubbed in glue and worked up a little 120 sanding dust to fill them. It went pretty well and I hope the diamond cleats hold them together this winter. I'll send a humidifier along.

I am fitting the nut right now, shaping the saddle and hope to hear this guitar vibrate by night's end.

I'll send more pics later tonight or first thing in the morning.

...exciting stuff!

Dean

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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Dean Kumbalek » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:42 pm

Hey All,

I got Joe's guitar strung up tonight and it sounds great. I sent some pics to Joe and he may post, but I am pleased with the results and I think Joe will be too.

A little setup and finish tweaking- then off to Joe, probably by July 1.

This was a cool endeavor.

Dean

My new place in De Pere at 214 N. Michigan is a great spot. It feels good building again and feel life's energy continuing. I hope to make it to Grant's in July. Maybe see some of you.....

Dean

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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Eben » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:22 pm

Its bee yoo tee full, D!

;) 8-)

And real pleased to hear your new digs are fine;
and you're goin' to the Gathering?
Damn, i gotta get there!

E
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Re: Boycote / lutz build - Builder exchange

Post by Dennis Leahy » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:45 am

Eben, that was a nice post for your 4,444th post. Ever encouraging, friendly, and warm.

Dean, its great to hear that you like the sound. I always thought Bocote was kind of a 'dead' sounding wood, and then I played the one Grant made - and changed my mind. Nice combination of wood species. It really looks great!

And yeah, great to hear you're going to make it to Stringfest!

Dennis
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