Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Guitars by Todd Lunneborg of Andover, MN
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Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by tlguitars » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:43 pm

So I'm thinking I'm going to post the finish of the guitar I'm working on now. I teased it elseware and I think it'd be fun to finish it here. This whole "forum" idea has had me thinking about why I build, in that there's more then one right and wrong and more than 7 ways to do, and state things. So here's to all you level headed cats who can read far enough into my coded dialogue to know, and see what I'm trying to say without saying; that I dig this side of the ocean too.

So to the what I love about being apart of the luthierie community, Cheers. And if you want to learn more about my style and influences check the Fretboard Journal, Number 4. It's almost sold out, haha, (plug, plug, plug).

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Anyway here's where I'm at/what's happened so far and I'm off to build some more.

The Design

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The Back

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The Top

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The Block

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The End for now.

Todd

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Dennis Leahy
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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by Dennis Leahy » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Hi Todd!

Very pleased to see your thread here!

At first blush, when I looked at your drawing, I thought I was looking at two different guitar patters, overlapped, or an optional wider lower bout. Lucky for me, I have already been to your web site and I know that you sometimes build a guitar with a bevel, and make the beveled portion of the guitar an addition to the guitar, rather than a subtraction from it. Very unique approach!

As you said, you "teased" this guitar elsewhere, and many of us can't (or choose not to) go there. So, if you would be so kind as to fill-in a few of the details, as time permits. Such as: the laminated back braces - aesthetic and fun, or functional and purposeful, or all of the above ...

I allowed my subscription to FJ to lapse! I gotta grab a copy of that issue, and re-enlist!

Dennis
Dennis Leahy

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Bilbert
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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by Bilbert » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:23 pm

Hi Todd - Thanks VERY much for contributing to this forum!

I'm not familiar with your work, so I checked out your website - nice stuff - your passion was QUITE apparent!

I look forward to seeing how this one progresses, but WOULD like to know a *wee* bit about your bracing. :D

This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff we want to see here!

Bill

I see Eben was checkin' it out the same time I was!
Bill Bertolino

I'm watchin' TV in the window of a furniture store................. T Waits.

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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by expatluthier » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:32 pm

Todd,

Beautiful work! It's great having you participate in the Luthier Community. I can't wait to read more about the bevel approach. Most very cool!

Randy B.
"Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings" - Unknown

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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by tlguitars » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:00 pm

Ok, first off, to be honest I'm a total Olson-a-holic; I have old Olson tools, jigs, fixtures and Brazilian Rosewood. But, I also know that everything I'm trying to do in my own building is the result of my influences. See my site and the FBJ #4 article. So my back braces are the 3 cores of Jim’s neck, but in brace form.

My thinking is this. Laminates are stiffer as a result of the glue. The spruce braces on their own are great but are thumpy, (drop a carved brace on a metal surface/tablesaw/bandsaw table, and it clinks but doesn't chime.) I drop my laminate braces on the metal surface and it pings. I have no idea if it makes a difference, but I know for sure it's not a detractent. Plus I can make my braces thinner, removing weight from the reflecting/vibrating back, and also get a better sound transfer because the brace is that much stiffer.

I have no idea if I'm right but it's what I see happening in my head when I think back to the musical acoustics physics class I took in college, and when I try to justify it to myself. ;)

But first and foremost it's a tribute to my hero. It takes 3 seconds of work and it looks cool, and no-one else does it. In I'm in a market where I'm already making an Olson Sj, like everyone else is so what can I do different. My choice is to say thanks with every guitar I make, thus the 3 piece. It's Adirondack, Indian Rosewood, and Adirondack.

The Marriage strip is the result of trying to make the strip match the braces. So I sandwich glue the whole thing with super glue and sand it with the thickness sander and I get a fancy looking marriage strip for 5 minutes of work.

Dennis: Get your subscription in soon. My next article on Brazilian Rosewood comes out in the next #11 Fall 2008 Edition. It includes Jeff Traugott, Paul Smith and Joe Knaggs from PRS, and Dick Boak from Martin Guitars. Should be cool. (Plug, Plug)

As to my bevel, thanks Dennis, my thinking (in my quest to be different, but worthy of change) is the current bevel designs all take away from the bass side of the top. The Laskin bevel get's routed in and Kevin Ryan’s' does too, but flows from point to point.

My thinking is that Bass Vibrations need a long and flexible surface area to sound at it's most efficient. So the more surface space the more potential you have for longer (lower) wave travel/tones. By cutting into the top (the normal Laskin/Ryan methods) you take away from the surface area of the bass side. To my thinking, stiffening up the bass side of the guitar, making it brighter which could be a + or - depending on what you like. Now Kevin compensates for bass loss by building a bigger shape (air/sound chamber) and builds a deeper guitar, and changes the bracing a little to correct the change. Crazy smart, right?

I thought, "why change the top when all you have to do is extend the back." The bevel is hidden to the player anyway. Meaning that when it's done right you don't even feel it, it feels like natural playing posture. At least it should to those who played guitar for 6-8 hours a day in college like I did. I play Olson shaped guitars, fairly well I think, and loosing that 5/8" weirded me out. Like going from a guitar with a 1 5/8" nut to a 1 3/4" nut. So my answer is rather than change my posture, I'll build out the back and change the guitar.

So my design is an Olson Sj with the bass side built out. Yes I'm building my sound chamber bigger on the bass side, which is the flaw in my idea, so I have to tighten up my top just a bit on the bass side to compensate. And no, I have no idea how to that correctly. But what I am doing is super subtle. I'm just moving a brace slightly closer to another brace to tighten the surface area hoping that it makes the correction I need.

To be honest I scared myself to death thinking that I had to do it "as good as"/and "just like" the old guys. But what I've finally realized is that to me and my building it doesn't matter. And my building is sooooooo much better for it, in my opinion anyway.

Hope that helps in understanding/justifying some of my choices.

I'm off to take more photo's.

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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by Joe Sustaire » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:49 pm

Hey Todd,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and philosophy behind what your doing. So many times we get so focused on the how, that we neglect the why. It's really nice to have the thoughts and reasons and goals explained to further our understanding of what you, and we are trying to achieve with our building.

Looking forward to more,
Joe
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you any different!"
Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by Raymond » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:30 pm

Thank you Todd, for a glimpse both into your techiniques and your thoughts.

I'm looking forward to seeing this build come together.

Raymond
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.

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Re: Sapelle, Italian Bevel

Post by tlguitars » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:01 am

Last nights work:

Preview the back. You can see my centerline is centered for a standard Sj. So the bass side looks heavy. But that's the way I designed it, it is what it is.

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Here's 3 views of my bevel insert. I make and shape it seperate, and glue it in in basically it's finished forum, which I can document and post after my next build for the other side of the ocean. So here's the 1st of 3.

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Bevel 2

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Bevel 3

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I had to upgrade my clamping mold too. I was having a hard time removing it as it was just in ring form. So I cut it in half and put in some posts and supports to hold it where I need it.

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So finished it looks like.

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I placed my top and layed out my lines. It's way low tech but there's a plan for the next time, I have to standarize a few things first.

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and layout

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Routing my kerf-throughs from the inside out. It's like painting really.

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Finished it looks like this:

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There's a little tear out but not enough to matter because that's what binding is for.

My tops are braced a little different. I had to put in my time to even get the hints at how to do it well so forgive me for not showing everything. ;) :lol: 8-) :ugeek:

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My clamping system is way over the top but to be honest it's one of my favorite pieces. The sides of the mold puts my clamps so that the tips (clamping surfaces) are exactly on the kerfing and the sides. So all the pressure is verticle and perfectly passed from point to point.

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Now a lot of the set up for this is done in my back and top molds which you don't see but they allow me to size and shape my sides before and after the kerfing is on so I get perfectly square and radiused glueing surfaces. I glue my tops on with a piece of 3/4 ply over the top. This helps to keep my tops perfectly flat. I don't radius my tops. I do the flat/fall away tops like the other MN guys do.

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Yes it is clamp overkill, but man the results are killer and 100% reproducible. You might be asking what I I'm doing to my back at this point. Well I just use my shape pattern that's 1/4 plexi and it's perfectly protected and supported.

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the 1/4 also allows the radius to stay too as the plexi bends with the back.

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That's all I got last night. Here's to what's next.

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